What's Under the Chalk

Gina Pongetti: Welcome to the MedGym Podcast. I'm Gina Pongetti Angeletti, physical therapist and someone who has spent a career in the gap between what an athlete's body can do and what it's being asked to do. This show is about health and the sport across three pillars: mental, physical, and training. In two days, the best gymnasts in the world walk into Rotterdam for the world championships. Every one of them will land on the same mats, swing on the same bars, and punch off the same boards. Nobody watching at home will think anything of it. We're gonna spend the next hour thinking about nothing else. Every piece of that equipment has to pass the rules of World Gymnastics, the sports governing body. For most of its history, you knew it as the FIG. It took the new name last December. Inside those rules, the companies that build the equipment still make very different choices. So today, we're going inside one of them, SPIETH. It has been building gymnastics equipment since the 1950s. It's the company behind the tension springboard that debuted at the 1956 Olympics in Melbourne. It has supplied twelve Olympic Games, and it's the apparatus supplier in Rotterdam. With me from SPIETH are Jan Stechmann, Managing Director of SPIETH Germany and SPIETH America, and Jeanette Wörner, head of sales and marketing at SPIETH Gymnastics. Jan, Jeanette, welcome to this MedGym podcast and thank you so much for being willing to do this. Are we a little bit nervous and excited for the load in process and setup in Rotterdam? Is everybody ready? All the trucks, all the people? And Jeanette is Jeanette Wörner: Everybody's ready. Well Jan Stechmann: I'll I'll let I'll let Jeanette answer that because she's gonna be there way longer than I am. Gina Pongetti: coming from from on site in Germany, which is where she is. So she is very Jeanette Wörner: Yeah. Gina Pongetti: ready because she is there. Jeanette Wörner: Well, I mean I just received the first pictures how our trucks are arriving over there from the Dutch Federation. So I guess for them they're maybe a little bit more nervous than than we are because that's what we do all the time. But yeah, you see like a positive positive impact there and Gina Pongetti: Excitement. Jeanette Wörner: everybody is ready. So our service technician will be there as of Monday. Yeah. Gina Pongetti: I love it. So yeah, both for Jan and Jeanette, I would love for you to tell us what your responsibilities are for the company, but then also what the month of worlds looks like for both of you from a lead up perspective to actually what the week looks like. Jan, we'll start with you. Jan Stechmann: Yeah. Yeah, so my responsibilities is running SPIETH globally. So I take care of our subsidiaries in Germany, in Canada and in the US. And with that luckily working with a very very dedicated and very capable team in form of Jeanette and some of her colleagues in Germany, in Canada and in the US, where we have great great people working for SPIETH yeah, the the world championships in in Rotterdam certainly are a great event for us. we are happy that we were chosen for this event, and this really goes kudos to the team in Germany with Jeanette that has managed to secure this, and where we are yeah, very happy that we we had the chance to to do this and definitely looking forward to seeing that live and in action towards the end of the month for me. But of course. As Jeanette already mentioned, our German team is already on site for the whole two weeks there. So I just get to see the finale or basically of when it what Gina Pongetti: Ha ha Jan Stechmann: it looks like when it's all said and done. So Jeanette and her team are the ones that are making everything work out the way it should for the athletes. Gina Pongetti: So Jeanette, what does the week look like for what do the the the two weeks look like for you, essentially the week before with load-in as well personally Jeanette Wörner: Yeah. Gina Pongetti: and your staff? Jeanette Wörner: Yeah, I think for our technicians they are the longest period over there, like almost three weeks. So they left on the eighth, I think. well for them the first thing is to do the setup. I mean everybody sees the field of play where where the magic happens, but there is a dedicated warm up area, so with the exact same equipment that they can prepare on and warm up and you have different training facilities. especially for athletes that are traveling through time zones and have a longer period to stay. They are already in the Netherlands training in different gyms where they also have SPIETH equipment. and for me the week is we have a lot of side events as well. So we have of course what we do for the athletes, we have some things also some surprises that we have prepared for the athletes so that they feel welcome on site. we have customer events, we have a big area where kids can play around with equipment. We have a trade show where customer can ask us questions. Well so I would say my job is just being there, being the host, and make everybody feel welcome around SPIETH and the and the event. So yeah. Gina Pongetti: Oversight, yes. That's fantastic. from a perspective of trucks and load, what is the capacity? What is the size? do we have a fleet of twenty-five, thirty, just in volume for people to understand what it takes? I mean, everyone's familiar with watching concert trucks load in and load out, but Jeanette Wörner: Mm-hmm. Gina Pongetti: for sports events it's sometimes challenging to see that behind the scenes because the fans aren't there early enough. to see load in. So is is there anything Jeanette Wörner: Yeah. Gina Pongetti: fun and impressive that you can tell us about the volume of things that are being shipped? Jeanette Wörner: Well I think the comparison with the concert trucks matches quite well. we have some trucks with equipment that have like two boxes Jan Stechmann: Two bottles. Gina Pongetti: Sure. Jeanette Wörner: behind that. we have trucks that are side loaded, especially for the podium. That's a bit of different truck that you can open up on the side and take out all the podium because that's I would say a huge volume. We have two podia on site. yeah, I think so overall with like the fifteen fifteen to twenty trucks you're quite quite all right, yeah. Gina Pongetti: That's it's a great, a great comparison to that. Jeanette Wörner: Mm. Gina Pongetti: if I were to sit down with your engineers and talk to them first, SPIETH, where would you say that they would be most proud of on being innovators and being ahead from a safety perspective? Jeanette Wörner: I think the one we're the most proudest of is that we usually see it as a team effort to develop ideas. I mean, everybody has a certain role in it. and I think for us we manage quite well the triangle between athletes' feedback, the great minds of our engineers, and managing the ruling body of the sport. So it's never a one one way road. so it's always Gina Pongetti: Yes. Jeanette Wörner: a working cross. process back and forth between we have an idea, we're checking it with the athletes, we're testing it and then we go further from that. So it's not that everybody is sitting there in their little cubicle just like making up equipment. Gina Pongetti: Right. Well, the process the process Jan Stechmann: And I think Gina Pongetti: of all of that is outlined in in Jeanette Wörner: Mm-hmm. Gina Pongetti: hundreds of pages through two documents, of course, that World Gymnastics has. So one is just the setup and understanding of what is required for each meet perspective. And then one is actually a how-to test and how-to-pass. when equipment is getting done. So the Jeanette Wörner: Mm-hmm. Gina Pongetti: engineering team that you have can have a design. They can design it to all the specs, and then the athletes have to go through a testing process. They'll give you feedback. The engineers have to go back to the table. And you don't do the actual world gymnastics approval or FIG approval until you have your best product forward to present. so I don't Jeanette Wörner: yeah, sure. Mm-hmm. Gina Pongetti: know if Jan or Jeanette would be better to explain a little bit about how closely you do work with the athletes on what their feedback is. This is too bouncy, this is hard, we've had this beam cover that you had wore down too quickly or whatever it is, and then how you change that. So are explain just a little bit about that feedback loop for us. Jan Stechmann: Maybe just one one quick one to your previous question, because the one thing that I think that I always feel as a somebody who has not grown up in gymnastics, but where I always feel we are extremely blessed that we have ex gymnasts or people that are still in gymnastics who are in our sales team that's out with the customers, with the athletes at events, that we have even in our engineering team ex gymnasts that sometimes competed on national levels. and where we really have people that understand what we're doing down to the point where they know exactly how it feels themselves, from Gina Pongetti: That's great. Jan Stechmann: that point of view, where where we have, I would say, a very good forward-facing chance to meet the athletes with people that actually know what the athlete is talking about, right? So even if that feedback sometimes doesn't come in something that a regular engineer would be able to pinpoint and say, Huh. But w we we have I think we we we can make that transition very well. I think that's let's say just from from my side where I really like working with our teams on that on that type of development. Jeanette Wörner: Yeah, that's a good point, Jan, because I think yeah, that one thing is to get feedback and the other thing is to understand the feedback because I mean, gymnasts they have their own language, how they describe movement Gina Pongetti: Ha Jeanette Wörner: and so on, and it really helps if you have people that speak the same language. Gina Pongetti: Yeah, I think there's a if we use this example for those that are watching, whether you're an athlete, a physical therapist, a doctor, sports scientist, we use the word bounciness a lot in a sport from a lay perspective, but that means a very different thing. So a trampoline is bouncy, but there's a lot of give to it, and it takes a minute. A floor can be bouncy in that someone tumbling feels like they get more height on that day from a different manufactured floor. Maybe it's a new floor. Et cetera. Sometimes that's good, sometimes that's bad. It depends also on balancing control Jeanette Wörner: Mm. Gina Pongetti: and things that we call ground reaction force. So how much of what you give to the ground gives you back. And whether good or bad, let's just say on a scale of zero to a hundred, the ground gives us 78% back of what we give it. Well, if any on any given day you are used to getting that back and a different piece of equipment now gives you 85 or 68. Whatever those numbers are in your mind is less or more than, and it throws off timing. It throws off how long you wait, the angle that you're taking off for for for things, for back tumbling specifically. and then if we look at things like high bar and parallel bars with tension cables, the bounciness of a bar can throw somebody off in their timing from a tap swing or for a release move as well. So I think the best the best part about what FIG does is they announce the equipment long enough that athletes can purchase the equipment, the athletes, the gyms, the training centers, so that you can train on the equipment and get used to that equipment for for meet day. and I think that that is something that you at SPIETH do a fantastic job with is working especially with. The gym owners that do have national team and/or worlds team hopefuls to make sure that they're equipped as greatly as possible for their best preparation. Which is which is wonderful. Jan Stechmann: No, absolutely. Gina Pongetti: so when Jeanette Wörner: Mm-hmm. Gina Pongetti: we go from wood shop to foam as we're as we're talking about, what were gymnasts landing on when this all started with gymnastics, where we didn't have springs and the evolution? And let's just take floor for example. and I think that that's a really good example to use as people compare not just tumbling to, you know, Simone's tumbling and the evolution of men's gymnastics and and the triple. I know that both of you have not been around long enough with the sport and everything to watch the evolution, but I know you know about the history. So it maybe touch on the last five to ten years specifically and how the engineering of the floor has changed and evolved based on what the athletes' needs have been. Jeanette Wörner: sure. I think we also see our responsibility into making athletes' gymnastics safe because if you talk about athletes they're always very eager, they want to go higher, more tumbles, more somersaults. And I think it's also our responsibility because that it's maybe not in the first thinking, okay, if I jump higher I also need to come back and land it safely because first of all it's like I wanna fly I wanna go high and so I think for the floor the idea is that we have steel springs which gives you a good take off. you can go really high. But then to manage to create a landing that that also that Gina Pongetti: That is controlled. Mm-hmm. Jeanette Wörner: is controlled for your body so you have a quite a combination with foam and and a layer on top. So that you get the sp bounciness of the steel springs, but also have the chance to land it safely because when you go higher, you need to come down and your body also needs to carry on on that. So, yeah. Gina Pongetti: To carry the load. And that of course is, and Jan, I know that we were speaking of this when we were just most recently at Nationals, that of course is part of the huge process of the testing center also, that you can't just make someone go to the moon because there are stipulations. Jeanette Wörner: Yeah. Jan Stechmann: Yeah. Gina Pongetti: with how high one can go and how high it needs to go. Essentially think about taking a bowling ball, dropping it from a certain height onto something. each piece of equipment needs to have that bowling ball bounce back, but not too much, but not enough. The reverberation, the absorption to it all has to fall in certain statistical norms. So Jan, we were talking about a the the product development side of it. And when there is a new idea, it it really does have to fall within this very small margin of error with the testing center. Jan Stechmann: Yeah, no, absolutely. And and this is where we luckily we we have a chance to cooperate with universities, where we have a chance to cooperate with really a a phenomenal outfit here in in Germany as well, a testing center where we can really with with whom we've designed actual equipment to have exactly this impact measured onto the equipment, be it the springboards, be it the floors, but where you can literally have something fall at a certain weight a thousand times in a row and see the progression of the material. whether hey, the first 90 times somebody jumps on it, it behaves like this. Then it starts degrading. So hey no, we can't have that. We need this to be consistent for the longest possible period of time. So that the floor or the springboard in this case always gives you the same bounce back that the athlete is expecting because I think That's one of the things that really needs to happen, right? That the athlete basically knows ahead of time what that floor is gonna give him, right? And I think that's where it's also so important that yeah, if you wanna compete on the highest level and you compete on a certain piece of equipment, that you train on that equipment ahead of time so you know what that equipment is going to give you. Gina Pongetti: I think we equate it to tires and how there are a certain amount of miles where they suggest that you redo your tires. And there's a certain amount of times that an elite male gymnast can land in a corner of a floor before maintenance has to happen with new foam, with new springs, et cetera. And you do have obviously on site at a world championships, equipment is not wearing down. But over the course of five years of being at a gym, that's why there are safety measures and people that can come out, equipment engineers and experts and say, Yes, this is that looks like we need new foam, maybe sooner than normal, if you're a gym such as a WOGA that has a great amount of tumbling elites as opposed to a gym that has mostly Level 5s who are smaller bodies and less wear and tear on on the equipment. So I think that that's very important. For those that don't know, every meet starts with brand new equipment. And so it is broken in. it is broken in, but it is not like they're taking 10-year-old equipment from a gym and bringing it over to to be used. So they try to make it as consistent as possible, no matter who that ill equipment provider is. And sometimes people say it feels tight. The word tight is used because it feels like it just needs to be broken in. And after podium training days, maybe by first day competition, equipment feels like it has loosened or that it feels a bit better. Jeanette, do you have a thought on that as well? Jeanette Wörner: yeah, sure. And I think you mentioned here something very important. That's why we very often have when we set up that some some local clubs, or gymnasts, they come in so that the equipment is on the first day of podium training, not completely new. So that it's already like it's new, but maybe already one day of training is already on it so that when the gymnast comes in everybody has the same condition and not everybody needs to start on a brand new bar for example so that it's already covered in magnesia and and ready to use because yeah. Yeah, also for the vault So that they have maybe Gina Pongetti: There's chalk and honey. Yes. Jeanette Wörner: like one training session already on the field of play before the athletes that are competing are on it because yeah, otherwise would be a bit of a disadvantage for the first ones. Yeah. Yeah. Gina Pongetti: Of the box is not necessarily the best. So when talking about what certain equipment feels like, we often hear people say, I'm so happy to be back on a SPIETH beam, or this feels like a SPIETH beam. we talked earlier a little bit about force anticipation and making sure that the equipment works with the athlete, which is a huge aspect of engineering and Jeanette Wörner: Mm-hmm. Gina Pongetti: medical engineering and making sure a sorry, sports and medical engineering, if you will, to make sure that it doesn't work against you and it works for you. So when someone says they love a SPIETH beam, what do you think your top three reasons are for why an athlete may have a have a preference? Jeanette Wörner: For the beam. I would say Gina Pongetti: And let's start with Beam. Jeanette Wörner: I would say first of all the different layers that are are on top. Of course you have an aluminum core, but then we have managed to get certain foam layers included that gives you a stability if you have turns or like other gymnastics elements, but on the same side if you have a big impact like from a somersault, the foam will will let's say welcome you on the beam. Gina Pongetti: Yes. Yes. Jeanette Wörner: So that it's not that hard. I think one thing that I love the most about about our beam is the shape of the core. Because if you are standing on the beam, everybody knows it's ten centimeters wide and you could do this in a square. But our beam is is having a let's say if you are on top you have a little belly on the side, which means that when you're standing on top of the beam, it looks a bit wider, but it's of course Jan Stechmann: Yeah. Jeanette Wörner: not wider, but it gives you a Gina Pongetti: Ha ha ha. Jeanette Wörner: nice nice feeling. So if you have athletes comparing the beam you could have it with a straight side or you have like a little curve in it and from a visual aspect, yeah, it it gives you just a better feeling. it's the very same thing, but I like I I personally like that the most, yeah. Gina Pongetti: And the friction, the surfaces, which we can science nerd out on talking about friction surfaces and all of the different levels of what it feels like to be on the beam, the beam covering, obviously of a vault table covering is very different than what we have to talk about Jeanette Wörner: Mm-hmm. Gina Pongetti: with the aluminum of a bar and even a hand mat. So what about the surface of vault and the surface of beam is important for your company with your engineers to think about when thinking about athlete safety. Jeanette Wörner: sure you want to give them a certain grip to it, but but also you want to make sure that when they apply all the magnesia, the honey and whatever they they smear on it, that it also lasts. I mean the one thing is that you bring it to a competition, where it well gives you a good feeling for the competition, but you also want to have it in your gym and you want to have it for three, four, five years, so we make s make sure that it's strong enough to hold all Yeah, the stuff on top. Gina Pongetti: Right. I almost im imagine Jan at home in his kitchen doing a research project with a plunger with honey and chalk on it. And every five seconds it just pushes in and it pushes in. And then a one Jeanette Wörner: Yeah. Gina Pongetti: day later, five days later, one month later, we're looking Jeanette Wörner: Yeah. Gina Pongetti: to say, What does this look like? Is it lasting? Jeanette Wörner: Right. Jan Stechmann: And and and with Gina Pongetti: I think Jan Stechmann: and and with every athlete using their own prescribed little, you know, Gina Pongetti: Yes. Jan Stechmann: differences in what they are putting on there. So it's it's not an easy one. No, that's that's for sure. But it it's it's something that you came came to earlier with regards to the differences also between what is it looking like in a Level 5 gym versus what is it looking like at an elite event, right? So I think for us this is really something that we really, really implore a lot because people are like, so How long does that piece of equipment last? And it's like, what are you doing with it? Right. So there is there is of Gina Pongetti: Wait. Jan Stechmann: course also the question of that it's it's hard to say, hey, you have to replace that every two years when two years in an elite gym you might not even reach the two years. Whereas in a Level 5 gym, that piece of equipment can last five years because just from the forces that are in there, which of course makes it very, very important from our end always to service that equipment correctly, right? That you have the ability Gina Pongetti: Yes. Jan Stechmann: to go in and look and say, Hey, you know, what what are you doing with this and how long have you used this already versus, hey, this this looks perfectly fine and is good to go for another couple of years. Gina Pongetti: I will I will equate that to two parallels. Runners have shoes, and shoes are important, right? And so we're looking at 250 to 300 miles for pairs of shoes often before breakdown, which for someone training for a marathon is every five weeks. And for someone maybe not training for a marathon or a 5K, you can get six months out of it. So we've actually bisected shoes and cut them in half and looked at the foam. We have people run that we know what their weight is and what their cadence is. So we know how many steps the shoe has physically taken. We slice it in half and we say, okay, now this foam, which used to absorb at a quarter per hundred pounds or maybe half of it per hundred pounds. Now we're going with a a hundred pound person, it goes three quarters of the way down, which is not what it was intended to do. I'm very much summarizing science right now, but in the aspect of of research and training, especially for the carpet-bonded foam on floor, there is a point in time when if an elite gym is landing things in a corner over and over again, and you have like the tumblers of University of Oklahoma's men's team or something, and it's this one spot that is going to wear down greater than something that is doing back walkovers and cartwheels and and things like that. So, Jan, tell me a little bit about the safety. process that you have with regards to coming out to the gym to check equipment and how one would do that if they are at a gym and they say, not so sure about things, sh is it time to replace? Are we at that point? Jan Stechmann: So so again there's things of course that that you can do in the gym always with regards to making sure things are tight, things are, you know, good to go with regards to the Jeanette Wörner: Yeah. Jan Stechmann: daily wear and tear. But I think for us it's just important that every so often we can come in and and kind of look and and usually our guys are really even maybe there is not so much the visible signs sometimes as much as knowing what's going on in that gym. Because I think that helps a lot, right? That you can go out to the gym, you know what this gym is doing. Is there you know, a hundred and twenty pound athlete going round and round on that rail, or is that Jeanette Wörner: Yeah. Jan Stechmann: you know a sixty pound athlete going round and round on that rail? And how long has that rail been there? Obviously there is visual signs as well of stress on the equipment, and and this is I think where it comes really comes in handy to have, let's say, a SPIETH technician or or somebody one of our a dealer's technicians that you know goes through the gym has a look because then usually we can help the gym plan as well, right? Where it's like, hey, you might want to start looking at saving up some money to replace this piece of equipment because we think this this might be something you wanna Gina Pongetti: In six months or in one year or however. Perfect. Jan Stechmann: you wanna retire at one point. But no, I mean this this is I think really something that that we need to look at more and more also with regards to safety to say hey What does the maintenance of the equipment look like, right? We can give you the best piece of equipment at the start of the of the journey, let's say, but Gina Pongetti: Yes. Jan Stechmann: after a certain amount of time you yeah, you might want to replace certain things. we see it, you know, on the beams if if something always turns at the same time, at the same place, or you know, the you see that there is there's wear and tear to the equipment that that that will always be there. Gina Pongetti: Sure. I think one of the most interesting comments that I might get from athletes at or from parents at a gym is there must be something wrong with the floor because we have a lot of kids that are complaining of this or they sprained an ankle and my my fur it has nothing to do with SPIETH. This is just a general equipment comment. And I al my first answer to them is when's the last time you lifted up the carpet and and checked. Do you have a maintenance schedule? Do you have a safety coordinator at your gym? Which is not just to make sure that mats are not off and that SafeSport rules are being followed, but that includes equipment. And at what point in time are you checking the height of your beam? J because that's a safety issue or or the accuracy of the settings of your equipment, including but not limited to l not just walking on top of the f carpet and saying, I feel a dip, but is that dip a a foam needs to be replaced dip? Cause that's where everyone's landing their double layouts. Or is that just that they need to be pushed back together again and we need to actually lift and reset equipment? And I think that that is something that people don't do enough of at a gym and can be a means of injury prevention to make sure that the wear and tear is not affecting the body differently than the equipment was intended to do. So having said that, as we kind of transition into the the world's concept, obviously this equipment is being banged on and landed on with intense amounts of force for multiple days in a row all day long for podium training we are talking about 15 hour days. So Jeanette, we had spoken about the process of your engineers after setup. There's testing and then there are daily tests. There are some tests that happen when equipment is reset. Can you speak a little bit about what your engineers responsibility is on site at a meet such as a worlds or an Olympics. Jeanette Wörner: Well, they are the main person taking care of the equipment. So they come in, they set it up and as soon as it's set up they do their own tests. before the competition starts there's a bigger check of the equipment together with the people of the testing laboratory, from the FIG or World Gymnastics, they go through every bits and pieces of the equipment, checking that it's set to the right right height height. that it's enough space around it. So they have a complete checking procedure where they go through just to make sure that everything is set according to the rules. And well World Championships is usually a two week's event, so they check every morning, they check every night, so there's twice a day a check up, if everything is is alright. Gina Pongetti: And two sets of equipment to check, right? So we have the podium, we have the training equipment where people are training before the next session. And Jeanette Wörner: Mm. Gina Pongetti: then we have the competition equipment. So both the podium Jeanette Wörner: Yeah. Gina Pongetti: equipment and the competition set have to go through checks. Jeanette Wörner: I I think it's overall like f seven sets that are there in the training facilities and the in the warm up and the field of play. So yeah. Gina Pongetti: Absolutely. So if we are to talk a little bit about the certification process, walk Jeanette Wörner: Mm-hmm. Gina Pongetti: me through what in your opinion, from a higher level is the process of getting something certified. You would like to create a different balance beam or whatever. How does that start? I know there's lab testing, we have to get the certificate issued from World Gymnastics, and then at that point in time you can say that it is. able to be used. Jan, would you like to walk through that process a bit? Jan Stechmann: Yeah, I mean again, I mean I think by now we have I mean we know, as you mentioned, the documentation is provided as to what the World Gymnastics GYMLAB looks for with regards to the new products that are being tested. And so I think we have a very good idea today with our engineers and with our teams to look at okay, how do we design the product? But of course we we go through all the rigorous testing then to basically emulate what the gym testing, GYMLAB testing then would be. And as soon as we think that our equipment is ready and that we can send this off, we send this equipment off to the GYMLAB and the GYMLAB then will mo hopefully put their stamp of approval on it. This is a process. I mean this is not something they also put it then through their rigorous testing. And if they have any further questions, any comments, we get to to to look at it. But again if if it if it fails it's coming back. Gina Pongetti: And they give you comments, they give you comments back and then you have a certain set of time or take as long as you would like to to correct it. Jan Stechmann: Correct, we can we can we can we can correct. But but again, i that's the one thing you wanna prevent, of course. You don't want that project to fail, right? that's that's clear. because technically they have of course the the ability to say, Hey, this product did not meet our standards, you know, go back to the drawing board, right? And and this is of course something, I don't think I'm need to look at our history, but this is of course something that that you you try to avoid. and and again then once that rigorous testing is passed, that then the recommendation is being given that you are getting this certificate and then it goes to World Gymnastics and World Gymnastics then issues that certificate and then posts that certificate on their website and the the FIG website or the world gymnastics website then of course shows you every apparatus and every piece of equipment that is yeah FIG world gymnastics sanctioned and with those you can host then a an an world gymnastics sanctioned event. and yeah obviously we're Gina Pongetti: Right. And as we I guess that's a a a bigger level concept also for those that don't know. So local level ten meets, et cetera, US bound or each country has their own rules with equipment. But if it is a world gymnastics sanctioned event, a a World Cup or a n Olympic level event, it has to be using and exclusively using only approved equipment. So different rules at the country level, different rules at a national level for each for each country. if we were to just get a little nerdy, a PT question. I think of mats often as a continuum of continuum of mats. They're soft in the early season, and then we have harder mats by meet time. Can you talk us through some of even your training equipment designs and some of the matting that you have with? the triple backs and with so many people doing full and double layouts and the pounding, how you're matting from a training perspective is helping to dampen or or or temper just a little bit of absorptive forces. Jan Stechmann: Jeanette, do you want to take that route? Jeanette Wörner: Well, I think you mentioned it er yeah, I think you mentioned it earlier. You don't wanna have the mats where you have like you already see the dip in it where everybody lands. so first of all our FIG mats they're also developed so that you can easily exchange the core. So you can open them up by yourself, get a new core in it because I mean that's the basis of all. And I think similar to the principle of the balance beam, you have a harder surface. That's important so that your ankles can learn land flat, but you have a softer core included, that that is good for your body to to stop the forces. Yeah. Gina Pongetti: Yes, often if you take a mat and and cut it in half, the foam on the inside of a mat Jeanette Wörner: Mm-hmm. Gina Pongetti: does not necessarily have to be the same foam from top to bottom. So the surface that's Jeanette Wörner: Yeah. Yeah. Gina Pongetti: closest to the foot is meant for stability. Underneath it is meant for essentially force dispersion. And then there is a, like we said, a responsiveness or a bounciness to the foam that is meant to either give back to you or to allow. The forces to be distributed without giving back. A landing mat, for instance, wants to distribute Jeanette Wörner: Yeah. Gina Pongetti: force. A floor exercise needs to be able to have you set for skills. So it can't take all your force and make it go away. It has to be able to give back to you as opposed Jeanette Wörner: Yeah. Gina Pongetti: to something that needs to be absorptive. And some of those cross-sections of mats are very interesting to see. the testing center also has different stipulations for the covers of the mats. The the plastic outside feel, if you will, that that that you Jeanette Wörner: Yeah. Gina Pongetti: feel, you zip those out and then can replace the core on the inside. Which is which is wonderful. so we are going to talk just for a second about what you believe from a sport perspective, is how we need to respond to how the sport is growing. I have my top three issues that I think the sport is dealing with in a good or a bad way. the first is the aging athlete, which is obviously an excellent way in that we are having people last longer in the sport. So we need to be conscious of force absorption and longevity and less stress fractures, maybe proprioception being off and having more stability in the in the matting. The injuries that are happening most recently, Achilles tears or blowouts and ACL injuries, partially due to the fact that we're having more rotational forces that are happening that have to be absorbed when people land. And so matting and equipment have to keep up with that. In addition to physical therapy, strength and conditioning, diagnostics, taking care of one's body. and then obviously the third level is the the the athletes would like the mats to be responsive and we have to balance out responsive and safety. And so we can do triple backs, but then we have to absorb those triple backs. So Jeanette, you had mentioned a German word, and with my German background, I I love this that we have since sort of said that is the parallel of what we call force anticipation and something that SPIETH is very proud of, and that from a sports science perspective, I think all equipment should be. will you explain just a little bit about that concept for us? Jeanette Wörner: Yeah, so the German word you mentioned was Vorspannung. so that means like from from our founders till today, there's the certain mindset that whatever we do, we don't build equipment that the gymnasts compete or train on. The idea is that the equipment works with the gymnast or the gymnast works with the apparatus. that being said, you want to have some something coming back from the equipment which supports you. So if you land on it, it needs to be absorbed. If you want to take off, it supports your takeoff. If you're coming back and you want l like to do series like on parallel bars or on uneven bars, it's very important that the rail is going with your flow and is not working against you. So that's let's say the whole principle with whatever we do, whatever we develop, is to keep in mind that It is like it's like kind of a relationship that the athlete is having with the equipment. So yeah. Gina Pongetti: I like that. That's fantastic. Jan, I will ask you because you are stateside and spend some time here. We had a very interesting run of events with US with some Achilles at the with Olympic trials and everything leading up to Olympic trials for Paris. by the way, for viewers, this is not an anything against SPIETH. It's an in with this is an industry trend of all of our gymnasts collegiate. level 10, et cetera. Where are we going from an equipment perspective, from a research perspective, on attempting to anticipate that skills are getting bigger and harder and people are wanting to be braver? where are where is the industry going and where is Spieth going specifically? Jan Stechmann: Yeah, no, no, I think I think there's a lot of development around that specifically, right? there is the question of, hey, what what could a new development of mats look like, right? with regards to landing. there's a lot more research going into that at the moment. There is the question of hey, if we have athletes who are stronger, who are in this case maybe a little bit bigger, who are then having skills that are you know, even putting more force onto the equipment. This is for us something that we have into our, let's say, our next generation equipment probably will be able to sustain higher forces just by the fact of how athletes are developing, right? And how the skills are developing. Just like Jeanette said, right? In the end, the equipment needs to be able to handle the impact the athlete has. And what happens if it's not an optimal impact, right? What if it's not? how the athlete was actually supposed to land, but he lands sideways or off the center or w whatever it might be. so that we can we can yeah try to kind of preview that and and and try to figure out how we we can we can also make those things safer. But yeah, I I think our next our next generation of equipment will will look stronger will will will be able to take even higher impacts while still being able to have the retained energy that if you jumping back out that you can also jump back out, right? So this is this is what really the crux is for us Gina Pongetti: Right. Jan Stechmann: on a development side to to say yeah we we just need to deal with more force that's being exerted on our equipment with with new skills and and and changing athletes. Gina Pongetti: Walk me through the layers of floor real quick and how when a floor is laid down, everything from the concrete. So walk me first through podium from top to bottom and then from the bottom layer to the top of a of a floor. Jan Stechmann: Yeah, and I Jeanette, I don't know, you want to take that, I can take that. I mean we we are Jeanette Wörner: Yeah. Jan Stechmann: by now, I mean we're we're we're we're looking at the gyms where it's like, okay, so what type of concrete do you have in your gym, right? This is where this Gina Pongetti: Ha ha Jan Stechmann: is where it starts from anchoring potentially so that we know what what ground we are working with. then of course you have the podium which is which is wooden boards with with legs. where then you can anchor the equipment also to to these podiums. if you're looking then at the floor at the competition floor on top of that I mean you're looking at springs that are attached to floorboards then you have a foam layer on top of these boards and you have a carpet-bonded foam on top of these foam layers which is making it really quite like you said it's almost like dissecting that shoe you're if you're looking at it from a From a cut through version you have multiple different layers that serve multiple different purposes on on making sure that that athlete can can land and jump the the right way on on on one of these floors. Gina Pongetti: So from a very simple perspective, you have steel springs. So we have Jan Stechmann: Correct. Gina Pongetti: a wood, we have a wood podium, and the top of the podium Jeanette Wörner: Mm-hmm. Gina Pongetti: is also wood. And then we have steel springs, and then on top of the steel springs, they are within plywood boards or board pieces on top so Jan Stechmann: Correct? Correct. Jeanette Wörner: Well Gina Pongetti: that the springs stay vertical. And that is mounted so that they don't slide and move. Right. And so it's like a Jan Stechmann: Yeah. They are attached. They are attached. Correct. And Gina Pongetti: little sandwich. Of with the springs. On top of that, on top of that are foam layers. And then on top of the foam Jan Stechmann: yeah. Exactly. So yeah, it's it's basically it's exactly so it's basically Jeanette Wörner: Hm. Yeah. Gina Pongetti: layers is the carpet-bonded foam. So we're we're we're upwards where there's a lot of a margin for error, of course, and in making sure that everything stays together and that when you're taking off for a triple full, for instance, you're not you're you're not just jumping and doing Popas and straddle jumps. You're taking off at angles which have the ability to shove things out of place. so talk to us a little bit about how everything is held together. Jan Stechmann: Yeah. Yeah. So so basically like you just said, right? We're basically looking at a sandwich when you cut it open with regards to the layering up on how things are going, but it's also a puzzle when you look at it from the top, right? So you have the floorboards that are being arranged in a certain order and in a certain pattern. Then you have the foam layer that goes on top of these boards that have the springs attached to it. You have the foam layer that goes on top that goes then in another pattern so that you always make sure that you don't have the board ends and the puzzle piece ends meet at any point in time. And then you have another pattern that goes on top of that, which is the carpet-bonded foam that then again offsets to the boards and the puzzle pieces, so that you hope that you never have let's say the the end of a Gina Pongetti: A seam that's vertical. Jan Stechmann: exactly you never Jeanette Wörner: Mm-hmm. Jan Stechmann: have a seam that goes all the way through so that. Exactly to your point, right? But if if something goes sideways from a force standpoint that things don't start slipping. and again, like we said, that's where the maintenance part comes in a lot, that you say, Okay, after a while you have to check that to make sure that all these, let's say, security measures that we build in from our end with the equipment, that that still stands, right? That that still makes makes the athletes safe. Gina Pongetti: Right. One of the other hot topics in consistency across equipment and at meets is the tension cables that are on rings and high bar and uneven bars. there is actually a measurement device that we put on the bars that when the bars are pulled down with a certain amount of force, there can only be a certain amount of leeway or give. to the equipment. And there's I can talk for hours about the deep science of that, but that's Jeanette Wörner: Mm-hmm. Gina Pongetti: the layperson explanation. And when you are adjusting equipment, if it is raised or lowered or adjusted, then that needs to be checked again to make sure that it falls within this this width can either of you talk about how important that accuracy of making sure that that the tension testing devices are are adhered to? Jeanette Wörner: maybe first of all a comment about the tensioning and where it is attached to. if you look at the our uneven bars or the high bar, you see that our tensioning cables, they're attached right to the head, like the closest possible to the rail. which is also coming back to the the principles that we spoke earlier on, that gives the athlete the immediate feedback and everything is double tensioned with the cables from the lower bar to the high bar for example. So that you have the exact same swinging conditions on the lower bar as on the high bar compared to others where there might be differences in the way how the the the bars behave. So that's that's the very first thing that makes our bars unique, or high bars. the tensioning, for the tensioning it's also important the anchoring. because as you mentioned, like in the gyms it's also very often okay, you need to check the anchoring because it's very often in the concrete or it's anchored on the podium. but if you put all those forces from the gymnast on the bars, that's also something that you really need to check on because that might be a security issue if they are taking off. that's just like regular wear and tear, but it's important to also have a check up on on that. for the tensioning and the different measurements in it, you have this little device that's connected into the bars. for our bars you usually only need one of them. because everything is double tension, so everything is interconnected and working with the gymnasts and you can see immediately they they know exactly which kind of measurement they need within the equipment so and it's just really displayed. So whatever they adjust what you earlier did with like your feeling around the equipment can be now exactly displayed which gives them also the security and the know how that it's exactly as it was in the training gym, in the warm up or on the field of play. Gina Pongetti: Which is so interesting because as a kid and everyone will identify with this, you remember the really strong coaches that pushed up on the cables, and then the weaker coaches that might have gone like this, and you're Jeanette Wörner: Mm. Yeah. Yeah. yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Gina Pongetti: just like, I think I need that tightened a little bit more. And Jeanette Wörner: Yeah. Gina Pongetti: then you'll say, I just it I I feel off, or your Tkachev of your how high you are feels off, or Jeanette Wörner: Yeah. Gina Pongetti: your tap feels off. And There there wasn't really objective measurements to it. It was really how Sam set the bar versus how Todd set the bar and how Jeanette Wörner: Yeah. Gina Pongetti: how you felt. And so it's very nice to have to have some objective measures to these things Jeanette Wörner: Yeah. Gina Pongetti: now, which is incredibly helpful. last question. how do you make equipment for the athletes feel the same on a podium as it does in a gym that they have at home? And the obvious answer that I will pull out the gate is because no one actually has podiums in their home training gyms. So when you now incorporate wood and you now incorporate feet of of wood on a raised platform so that the equipment is not interacting directly with the concrete, but it is interacting with this this wood platform. How how do you try to not have that be essentially a completely unique experience for someone on raised equipment as opposed to flat floor. Jeanette Wörner: I think very often we do build in the gym a little bit n not a podium, but kind of a substructure underneath, just like a wooden small substructure. Because with the concrete it's very hard. also speaking again about the the injuries and so on, so very often when we do build gym we sometimes put in like a small wooden construction underneath the vault, run up or also underneath the floor because The run-up, it would be the same thing. Running on a concrete that's really not good for your ankles. So you want to have something underneath that supports a bit your run-up. and for the floor we do the same thing. So if you are now coming back to Rotterdam, there's always a small substructure underneath. Of course, when you're on the podium, it will be a bit bouncier. it will be a bit more give a bit more feedback to the athletes. But usually they like it, so yeah. Gina Pongetti: Yeah. Sometimes the bout that's why we have podium training, also, is that when the athletes get there, they get to feel the equipment. Sure. Maybe, Jeanette Wörner: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, because you need to adjust, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's true. Jan Stechmann: Yeah. Gina Pongetti: maybe we have I always see at our international events when I'm working that the first couple podium rounds, people are over-rotating skills. Maybe they feel like they have to run a little bit less fast into a tumbling pass or something simply just because that that extra give. Or that response time, it's not as tight, if you say, with with the podium. And so Jeanette Wörner: Hmm. Yeah. Gina Pongetti: you have to adjust just a bit to make sure that you are landing on your feet. Something you might have had to pull real hard Jeanette Wörner: Yeah. Gina Pongetti: to get around. You don't have to do as much of when you're on podium. Good and bad, it maybe makes you less tired, maybe makes it easier. But now you have to think and proprioceptively be aware of your body Jeanette Wörner: Yeah. Gina Pongetti: on how to make those changes also. which is why, from a grand scheme of leading up to an Olympics or a worlds, it's important for athletes to have podium competition experience to see that their bodies are actually used to being able to adapt to home gyms versus training gyms versus you know, if you're off site at a training gym in a different country versus actual podium equipment. And if you can take and harness the extra energy that you may have and know how to control that. Jeanette Wörner: Yeah. Gina Pongetti: When you're landing. Okay, last last fun question. If I am going to ask you for the future of equipment, this is not a SPIETH question. This is a just general gymnastics question. What are your hopes for the future with equipment? for the engineers, for the sport in general, for sport science and where we're going to make sure that the sport decreases injuries or at least attempts to mitigate them and how we need to adapt to where the sport the sport is going. We'll start with you, Jeanette. Jeanette Wörner: for me I I usually kinda hold my breath on the beam dismounts, especially when they go from the round off, because these are really nasty falls. I don't know how we can do something about that, but that's something on the top of my head where we think I mean, you can do it as good as possible, but I mean you're not perfect all the time and yeah, I don't have it in mind yet, but maybe that's something where we can do something about it to avoid those nasty falls out of the round round off. maybe making it a bit wider in the end or I don't know. So these would be just they Gina Pongetti: A very interesting concept. Jeanette Wörner: No, but I don't know. But this is something where I see okay, that's something if something happens it usually ends quite bad. Yeah. Gina Pongetti: and do you have any for if you were to give a comment to athletes that are training, given all the matting options that SPIETH has and that the world has, give Jeanette Wörner: Mm. Gina Pongetti: a little bit of what your wish list would be for for athletes in the gyms in order to make things a little bit more healthy. Jeanette Wörner: definitely use the multi-mats more like the small mattings that you put over a rail or the balance beam because it really supports you. it's I think the first time that we bring them now all for the world championships because sometimes our athletes are bringing in their own stuff, but for this time we brought plenty of them and even though you know that everything is safe and that you're good and you're prepared in the best way. I think it's safe and good to use them also from time to time in training. yeah, that would be my recommendation. Gina Pongetti: Fantastic. Jan Stechmann: Yeah. Gina Pongetti: Jan, what is your response to that? Jan Stechmann: Ma maybe maybe just a a a different maybe more let's say for the gym design. I mean one thing and I mean I've lived in the US now for a long time, but of course still have my my ties with with Germany. And one of the things that I see which is a little bit different, let's say, in the US compared to what we see in Germany, is the planning of the gyms. I think If you're looking at a new built gym, there is actually some regulations that you need to follow in Germany with regards to the pits and so on and so on. And I think the planning of those gyms, if I look at that from what our German project team does, and what all they look at and think about and and so on, I think that's something not not to you know put down anything that we we do we do here in the US. But I think it's it's interesting that it's a lot more more regulated also, right? So so there's more Jeanette Wörner: Mm. Jan Stechmann: rules you have to follow. And I again rules always create more more yeah issues sometimes, but at the same time they do make things safer also, right? So and I think that's something that maybe we can we can adapt here in the US a little bit more to that there is a little bit more of yeah. thinking of hey why is the pit this long, this deep? why are we putting Gina Pongetti: Right. Jan Stechmann: it like Jeanette Wörner: Mm. Jan Stechmann: this? and I think this is something that that there goes a lot more I i it seems to me like there's a more thought and and more planning and more let's say rules and regulations going into those types of concepts when we design a gym in Europe versus when we design a gym in in North America. Gina Pongetti: Right? Safety first. Jeanette Wörner: That's very good that you mention it. because I think there are two things. If you build a gym or if you are a gymnast or a coach with your gymnasts, you were talking earlier about the marathon. I mean your career you start as a kid and when you're lucky you end up at Worlds or Olympics, but it takes a while. So the whole way should be somehow protected. And also if you build a gym, you don't build it for one or two years, you usually build it for twenty five years. That means also talking about the pits, if we do build a pit, you have a spot where everybody lands and then you have a lot of security area around it. So you also need to make sure that you can main maintain that, exchange maybe parts of it that are very very much stressed through the landings, but that you don't have to to exchange everything. But yeah, you mentioned it earlier, you t you need to check on that as well, especially when you have high class athletes in it. Yeah. Gina Pongetti: That's great. Well, I I do have to say that the FIG, the World Gymnastics website, has deemed SPIETH as the official provider of equipment for the LA 2028 Olympics. So Jeanette Wörner: Mm-hmm. Gina Pongetti: congratulations to to you and Jeanette Wörner: Thank you. Gina Pongetti: your team greatly. Jeanette Wörner: Mm. Gina Pongetti: I know that athletes that are on route are most likely either at World Championships right now or training with countries that have facilities that obviously carry equipment. in the next two years, I'm sure you will be preparing, updating, upgrading people's equipment to make sure now that they know who they will be using so that they can get used to the equipment as much as possible. So congratulations on that. I think the longstanding nature of of SPIETH's dedication to excellence in decades is one of the reasons that that happened. So thank you for all that you do for the sport and that the engineers are doing to help make the sport safer for everybody that does it as well. From wooden from wooden balance beams to to aluminums, right? Where we where Jeanette Wörner: Hm. Thank you very much. Jan Stechmann: We appreciate you, Gina. Thank you very much. Gina Pongetti: where we where we have come. So I know that I know that your engineering team works very hard. Jeanette Wörner: Thank you. Jan Stechmann: No. We we appreciate this opportunity, Gina. Seriously. again for us making our equipment safer is is really one of our big, big driving forces and and making sure that we can enjoy good gymnastics at the highest levels with the least amount of injuries and really looking forward to it and obviously looking forward to to LA. that's gonna be a a great experience. Gina Pongetti: Absolutely. Well, thank you so much, Jan, Jeanette. Thank you so much and good luck in Rotterdam. That was Jan Stechmann and Jeanette Wörner of SPIETH. One thing to carry out of today: equipment is part of your training plan. The mat your gymnasts land on hundreds of times a week wears out, and nobody can see it from the top. So ask your gym when the floor foam was last replaced and who checks the cable tension. That's injury prevention, the same as strength, work, or rest. And when you watch worlds this week, watch the landings. Somebody built that mat to feel the same on the last day of the meet as it did on the first. Every episode, the show notes, and our practitioner directory are at medgym.net. Send this to one of the gymnastics fans in your life who has never thought about what's underneath the chalk. I'm Gina Pongetti Angeletti. Prevent, treat, perform, and we will see you next time.